Sprinkler Systems Uhaul move Lawn care Roses and trees Ford Parts Chrysler Parts Lake Powell New IPod Touch Apps New IPhone Apps IPhone Apps IPad Information IPad Apps Android APPS Android Games APPS Android Systems Android Tablets APPS and Beyond Smartphone Apps Smartphone Games Apps Repair and Tools Tablet PC Car Sharing Car Leasing Tabler Pc Fly Fishing Toyota Cars Vacation Rentals Stock market NYSE SSE Stock Freight & Shipping News Gluten Lactose Gout My Coupon Life Campgrounds Check Outdoor Kitchen Design and Redoo Bath Remodeling Palm Springs Las Vegas Vacation Tipps Lake Powell Boating Homes for lease Electric and green Car Blog Pearls and diamonds Whatsapp and forget SMS Blog, What is Whatsapp App Solar Panel Solar Energie Sun Power Blog
Reader


[Suche]  [Administrator]  [Hinweise zum Reader]  [Startseite]
Fantasy » alt.fan.pratchett » [I] Fun with keyboards
[I] Fun with keyboards [message #260068] Mi, 26 April 2006 20:54
Daibhid Ceannaideach  
If I've seemed even more tetchy that usual today, it's partly
because I'm getting used to a slightly different keyboard. For
ages Mum's been at me to clean the keyboard. This morning I
set to work. There was an awful lot of gunk in between the
keys, and as I scraped it out, I realised there was more
coming from *under* the keys. So, the logical thing to do at
this point seemed to be to unscrew the back and get at the
keys from behind. This did not work quite as well as I hoped,
but was quite effective. Putting the keyboard back together
proved less effective, and caused the computer great distress
when I switched it on. Showing great initiative[1] I went up
to where we keep the old computer 'til we decide what to do
with it, and brought down its keyboard, which, after a quick
dusting, was slightly cleaner than the old one had been before
I started. The keys, however are slightly smaller, and a lot
more resistent, so I'm finding typing harder work than normal,
and hitting the wrong keys more often...

[1]I don't think I get nearly enough credit for the ingenuity
I show in getting out of situations no-one else would possibly
have found themselves in in the first place...

--
Dave
Official Absentee of EU Skiffeysoc
http://www.eusa.ed.ac.uk/societies/sesoc
"[Wolverine]'s in every book. I think he just joined
the JLA, and for some reason he's in the revised
Penguin edition of Little Dorrit." -Joss Whedon
Re: [I] Fun with keyboards [message #260072 ] Mi, 26 April 2006 21:12
Brian Wakeling  
In a speech called Xns97B1CA7676D76daibhid [at] 130.133.1.4,
Daibhid Ceanaideach uttered thus:
> If I've seemed even more tetchy that usual today, it's partly
> because I'm getting used to a slightly different keyboard. For
> ages Mum's been at me to clean the keyboard. This morning I
> set to work. There was an awful lot of gunk in between the
> keys, and as I scraped it out, I realised there was more
> coming from *under* the keys. So, the logical thing to do at
> this point seemed to be to unscrew the back and get at the
> keys from behind.

I've done that. Not to clean it, mind you, but I did it.

> This did not work quite as well as I hoped,
> but was quite effective. Putting the keyboard back together
> proved less effective, and caused the computer great distress
> when I switched it on.

I do remember that I had terrible trouble trying to not put the screws
through some of the wires - maybe you caught one?

> Showing great initiative[1] I went up
> to where we keep the old computer 'til we decide what to do
> with it, and brought down its keyboard, which, after a quick
> dusting, was slightly cleaner than the old one had been before
> I started. The keys, however are slightly smaller, and a lot
> more resistent, so I'm finding typing harder work than normal,
> and hitting the wrong keys more often...

There's a keyboard like that at work. It's designed for someone with
partial sight, so it has slightly bigger keys and labels in big thick
print covering the entire key surface. They are also spaced wider and
higher than on a regular keyboard, and have more resistance. It's a
good job I don't have to use it for typing, as it prolonged use could
seriously damage my technique.

>
> [1]I don't think I get nearly enough credit for the ingenuity
> I show in getting out of situations no-one else would possibly
> have found themselves in in the first place...


--
http://freespace.virgin.net/b.wakeling/index.html
http://www.livejournal.com/users/sabremeister/
Use b dot wakeling at virgin dot net to reply
Cycling home 12 miles every night after theatre gives you a lot of
time for introspection.
I don't want introspection, I want a bloody car!
Re: [I] Fun with keyboards [message #260075 ] Mi, 26 April 2006 21:21
Daibhid Ceannaideach  
Also Sprach Brian Wakeling:

> In a speech called Xns97B1CA7676D76daibhid [at] 130.133.1.4,
> Daibhid Ceanaideach uttered thus:
>> If I've seemed even more tetchy that usual today, it's
>> partly because I'm getting used to a slightly different
>> keyboard. For ages Mum's been at me to clean the keyboard.
>> This morning I set to work. There was an awful lot of gunk
>> in between the keys, and as I scraped it out, I realised
>> there was more coming from *under* the keys. So, the
>> logical thing to do at this point seemed to be to unscrew
>> the back and get at the keys from behind.
>
> I've done that. Not to clean it, mind you, but I did it.
>
>> This did not work quite as well as I hoped,
>> but was quite effective. Putting the keyboard back
>> together proved less effective, and caused the computer
>> great distress when I switched it on.
>
> I do remember that I had terrible trouble trying to not put
> the screws through some of the wires - maybe you caught
> one?

There weren't any wires. There was a circuit board that
connected to the computer and a large flexible printed circuit
that went under the keys. I suspect that the bit where the
circuits meet is where the problem is, but I made several
attempts at correcting this, before realising that the chances
of me losing either a screw or one of the rubber things under
the keys were increasing exponentially.

>> Showing great initiative[1] I went up
>> to where we keep the old computer 'til we decide what to
>> do with it, and brought down its keyboard, which, after a
>> quick dusting, was slightly cleaner than the old one had
>> been before I started. The keys, however are slightly
>> smaller, and a lot more resistent, so I'm finding typing
>> harder work than normal, and hitting the wrong keys more
>> often...
>
> There's a keyboard like that at work. It's designed for
> someone with partial sight, so it has slightly bigger keys
> and labels in big thick print covering the entire key
> surface. They are also spaced wider and higher than on a
> regular keyboard, and have more resistance. It's a good job
> I don't have to use it for typing, as it prolonged use
> could seriously damage my technique.

I don't know if this is that sort of keyboard, or just very
old. I suspect it's going to damage my typing technique
though, which wasn't that great to start with.

--
Dave
Official Absentee of EU Skiffeysoc
http://www.eusa.ed.ac.uk/societies/sesoc
"[Wolverine]'s in every book. I think he just joined
the JLA, and for some reason he's in the revised
Penguin edition of Little Dorrit." -Joss Whedon
Re: [I] Fun with keyboards [message #260151 ] Do, 27 April 2006 00:22
Kar98  
On 2006-04-26 13:54:09 -0500, Daibhid Ceanaideach
<daibhidchenedelh [at] aol.com> said:

> So, the logical thing to do at this point seemed to be to unscrew the
> back and get at the keys from behind.

Don't do that. Again.

> This did not work quite as well as I hoped, but was quite effective.
> Putting the keyboard back together proved less effective, and caused
> the computer great distress when I switched it on.

Indeed. Easier to just get a can of compressed air and blow out all the
gunk[1] than trying to re-assemble a keyboard.

[1] crumbs, dog hair, dead insects, don'twannaknows
[I] Re: Fun with keyboards [message #260198 ] Do, 27 April 2006 01:52
Buzzholio  
Ren=E9 wrote:
> On 2006-04-26 13:54:09 -0500, Daibhid Ceanaideach
> <daibhidchenedelh [at] aol.com> said:
>
> > So, the logical thing to do at this point seemed to be to unscrew the
> > back and get at the keys from behind.
>
> Don't do that. Again.
>
> > This did not work quite as well as I hoped, but was quite effective.
> > Putting the keyboard back together proved less effective, and caused
> > the computer great distress when I switched it on.
>
> Indeed. Easier to just get a can of compressed air and blow out all the
> gunk[1] than trying to re-assemble a keyboard.
>
> [1] crumbs, dog hair, dead insects, don'twannaknows

My local computer store sells USB vacuum cleaners
strange things but they clearly have their uses

--=20
Buzzholio
Re: [I] Re: Fun with keyboards [message #260202 ] Do, 27 April 2006 02:12
news0604  
Buzzholio wrote:
> My local computer store sells USB vacuum cleaners
> strange things but they clearly have their uses
>
They do? 5 V x 500 mA (USB maximum ratings) will give you 2.5 W of
electrical power. Even with a highly efficient motor, that won't give
you much suction. [1]

Michael

[1] My vacuum cleaner, a fairly cheap, standard model, draws 1600 W at
its highest setting, and about 250 W at its lowest.
Even assuming the designers of the USB vacuum cleaner have achieved a
tenfold increase in efficiency, that'll give you just a tenth of the
suction of a regular vacuum cleaner *at its lowest setting*.
Re: [I] Fun with keyboards [message #260207 ] Do, 27 April 2006 02:53
news0604  
Daibhid Ceanaideach wrote:=20
> For=20
> ages Mum's been at me to clean the keyboard. This morning I=20
> set to work. There was an awful lot of gunk in between the=20
> keys, and as I scraped it out, I realised there was more=20
> coming from *under* the keys. So, the logical thing to do at=20
> this point seemed to be to unscrew the back and get at the=20
> keys from behind. This did not work quite as well as I hoped,=20
> but was quite effective. Putting the keyboard back together=20
> proved less effective, and caused the computer great distress=20
> when I switched it on.=20

Strange. Its usually quite easy to disassemble and clean a (quality)=20
keyboard; since I'm a bit of a collector when it comes to old [1]
computers, I've done that at least a dozen times.=20

(1) Carefully and without damaging anything, pull off the keycaps. A=20
large, flat-head screwdriver might help, as might a pair of tweezers or=20
bent paperclips. If the keyboard has an unsual layout, take notes. In=20
some very old keyboards (ca. pre-1985), there might be loose springs=20
under the caps. *Don't lose any of them.* Beware that different keys=20
might have different kinds of springs.=20

(2) Unless the keycaps have protruding bits that might be damaged, put=20
them in a cloth bag, close it (e.g., with a tight knot), and put it in=20
the washing machine (30=B0C, delicates) with your next wash. If they do=20
have protruding bits (rare), soak in dish detergent, then rub briefly=20
with an old toothbrush, and rinse.=20

(3) You should now be able to remove all the gunk that used to be under=20
the keys with a vacuum cleaner. However, you can go one step further:=20

(4) Unless the keyboard case is glued or welded (which I saw exactly one=20
time), open it, and separate the electronics from the plastic. How to=20
open it obviously depends on the case. Often, its either screws or=20
plastic hooks. Be careful not to break the latter. If it's not=20
immediately obvious, be gentle and *take notes*!

(5) *Carefully* vacuum the electronics; clean with alcohol if (and only=20
if) necessary.=20

(6) Take the plastics to your kitchen sink. Clean with dish detergent=20
and a soft sponge.=20

(7) Let dry. Use compressed air to blow water out of cavities. Then let=20
dry some more.=20

(8) When you're absolutely, positively sure its dry, reassemble.=20

You will now habe a perfectly clean, practically-like-new keyboard. [2]
No warranties, obviously, but it has worked for me any time. And I've=20
had some pretty manky ones.=20

Michael=20


[1] as in mid-70s to early 90s; *not* your five-year-old Pentium III, or=20
even your ten-year-old Pentium.=20

[2] except for the chemcial yellowing found with cheap plastics --=20
there's nothing you can do against that
Re: [I] Re: Fun with keyboards [message #260209 ] Do, 27 April 2006 03:44
Kar98  
On 2006-04-26 18:52:44 -0500, "Buzzholio" <Andrew.Burrett [at] gmail.com> said:

> My local computer store sells USB vacuum cleaners
> strange things but they clearly have their uses

Do you one better: _my_ local computer store sells something called
Windows XP Home. Strange thing, I think it's some sort of point and
click adventure game.
Re: [I] Fun with keyboards [message #260213 ] Do, 27 April 2006 04:09
Arthur Hagen  
Michael J. Schülke <news0604 [at] mjschuelke.de> wrote:
>
> Strange. Its usually quite easy to disassemble and clean a (quality)
> keyboard; since I'm a bit of a collector when it comes to old [1]
> computers, I've done that at least a dozen times.
>
> (1) Carefully and without damaging anything, pull off the keycaps. A
> large, flat-head screwdriver might help, as might a pair of tweezers
> or bent paperclips. If the keyboard has an unsual layout, take notes.
> In some very old keyboards (ca. pre-1985), there might be loose
> springs under the caps. *Don't lose any of them.* Beware that
> different keys might have different kinds of springs.
>
> (2) Unless the keycaps have protruding bits that might be damaged, put
> them in a cloth bag, close it (e.g., with a tight knot), and put it in
> the washing machine (30°C, delicates) with your next wash. If they do
> have protruding bits (rare), soak in dish detergent, then rub briefly
> with an old toothbrush, and rinse.
>
> (3) You should now be able to remove all the gunk that used to be
> under the keys with a vacuum cleaner. However, you can go one step
> further:
>
> (4) Unless the keyboard case is glued or welded (which I saw exactly
> one time), open it, and separate the electronics from the plastic.
> How to open it obviously depends on the case. Often, its either
> screws or plastic hooks. Be careful not to break the latter. If it's
> not immediately obvious, be gentle and *take notes*!
>
> (5) *Carefully* vacuum the electronics; clean with alcohol if (and
> only if) necessary.
>
> (6) Take the plastics to your kitchen sink. Clean with dish detergent
> and a soft sponge.
>
> (7) Let dry. Use compressed air to blow water out of cavities. Then
> let dry some more.
>
> (8) When you're absolutely, positively sure its dry, reassemble.
>
> You will now habe a perfectly clean, practically-like-new keyboard.

Or, the next time you're near a local computer store, you can buy a new
IBM^WMicroline? keyboard for $10.

Regards,
--
*Art
Re: Fun with keyboards [message #260220 ] Do, 27 April 2006 05:01
Buzzholio  
Michael J. Sch=FClke wrote:
> Buzzholio wrote:
> > My local computer store sells USB vacuum cleaners
> > strange things but they clearly have their uses
> >
> They do? 5 V x 500 mA (USB maximum ratings) will give you 2.5 W of
> electrical power. Even with a highly efficient motor, that won't give
> you much suction. [1]
>
<snip maths>

Yeah thats why I thought they were strange, mind you I've seen
ppl use those USB coffee mug warmers so anything is possible.

--=20
Buzzholio
Re: [I] Re: Fun with keyboards [message #260251 ] Do, 27 April 2006 10:45
Mixu Lauronen  
On Thu, 27 Apr 2006 04:44:58 +0300, René <Kar98 [at] The-Coalition.US> wrote:

> Do you one better: _my_ local computer store sells something called
> Windows XP Home. Strange thing, I think it's some sort of point and
> click adventure game.
>
I thought it was a virus of some sort.
--
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
Re: [I] Fun with keyboards [message #260264 ] Do, 27 April 2006 11:30
news0604  
Arthur Hagen wrote:
> Or, the next time you're near a local computer store, you can buy a new
> IBM^WMicroline? keyboard for $10.

Decent keyboards are rare, and expensive. So far, I've found only a few
good ones -- those IBM sold with the original AT, Cherry's G-80 series
[1], Apple's Mac Extended II keyboard. Those are all microswitch
keyboards; some Siemens-Nixdorf keyboards are the only membrane
keyboards that come close.

None of those keyboards ever retailed for less than $50, and for a
reason. I'm pretty certain I wouldn't want to type on anything that
sells for $10. You might as well ask FiX to drink his wine from a
cardboard box.

Michael

[1] Though I've been told they have gone downhill recently. I wouldn't
know -- my G80-2100 is more than 10 years old...
Re: [I] Re: Fun with keyboards [message #260267 ] Do, 27 April 2006 11:32
Paul Harman  
"René" <Kar98 [at] The-Coalition.US> wrote in message
news:2006042620445950878-Kar98 [at] TheCoalitionUS...
> Do you one better: _my_ local computer store sells something called
> Windows XP Home. Strange thing, I think it's some sort of point and click
> adventure game.


You know that LOL acronym you see so often these days? Well, it's very rare
that I actually do laugh out loud - loud enough for people to turn and stare
at me - caused by something I read.

Paul
Re: [I] Fun with keyboards [message #260273 ] Do, 27 April 2006 11:40
Jens Ayton  
Daibhid Ceanaideach:
> Brian Wakeling:
>> Daibhid Ceanaideach:
>>>
>>> This did not work quite as well as I hoped,
>>> but was quite effective. Putting the keyboard back
>>> together proved less effective, and caused the computer
>>> great distress when I switched it on.
>>>
>> I do remember that I had terrible trouble trying to not put
>> the screws through some of the wires - maybe you caught
>> one?
>
> There weren't any wires. There was a circuit board that
> connected to the computer and a large flexible printed circuit
> that went under the keys. I suspect that the bit where the
> circuits meet is where the problem is, but I made several
> attempts at correcting this, before realising that the chances
> of me losing either a screw or one of the rubber things under
> the keys were increasing exponentially.

Keyboards of this nature are eminently take-apartable. Take a photo of
the keyboard if you're not 100% sure of the layout. Obviously you need
to keep track of the screws. Take a the thing apart, and put the key
caps and rubber nipple things in a bowl of washing-up liquid and water.
The flexible circuit thingy can generally be peeled into three parts
(two with metal on, facing inwards, and a central separator with holes
in). Wash each layer thoroughly on both sides. place in an oven at the
lowest possible temperature to dry -- I've only tested this in an
electric oven at about 50 °C, use some sense. Wash up the key caps, then
put them and the rubber nipples in the oven on a towel. Wash up the hard
plastic bits and dry them. The important bits: I don't reccomend soaking
actual PCBs with components on, and make sure everything is dry before
reassembling. The connection between the sensor flexy thing and the PCB
can be a problem, but side-effects beyond keys not being sensed properly
are unlikely.

YMMV. No warranty express or implied. I have, however, actually done
this more than once. A simpler approach I've also had success with is
just washing up the entire keyboard, but ensuring dryness can be a problem.


--
\\\\ Jens Ayton, Fratello di Vetinari 36.3636363636364% insane
\\\\\__, Bringing sarcastic one-liners to the common hedgehog since 1999
\\\\\`/
Re: [I] Re: Fun with keyboards [message #260275 ] Do, 27 April 2006 11:42
Jens Ayton  
Michael J. Schülke:
>
> They do? 5 V x 500 mA (USB maximum ratings) will give you 2.5 W of
> electrical power. Even with a highly efficient motor, that won't give
> you much suction. [1]

You're assuming manufacturers give a coprolith for the specs.
Electrical appliances attached to USB tend to go well over the ratings,
which works fine with many but not all desktop USB controllers and
powered hubs. It is, however, silly.


--
\\\\ Jens Ayton, Fratello di Vetinari 36.3636363636364% insane
\\\\\__, Bringing sarcastic one-liners to the common hedgehog since 1999
\\\\\`/
Re: [I] Fun with keyboards [message #260281 ] Do, 27 April 2006 11:48
Torak  
Michael J. Schülke wrote:
> Arthur Hagen wrote:
>
>>Or, the next time you're near a local computer store, you can buy a new
>>IBM^WMicroline? keyboard for $10.
>
>
> Decent keyboards are rare, and expensive. So far, I've found only a few
> good ones -- those IBM sold with the original AT, Cherry's G-80 series
> [1], Apple's Mac Extended II keyboard. Those are all microswitch
> keyboards; some Siemens-Nixdorf keyboards are the only membrane
> keyboards that come close.

I use a Logitech Inwiggle or something. Shiny metal-effect cordless
thing, "designed for laptops", with separate keypad and mouse. Rather
good. Not cheap.
Re: [I] Fun with keyboards [message #260299 ] Do, 27 April 2006 13:10
Daibhid Ceannaideach  
Also Sprach =?ISO-8859-15?Q?Michael_J=2E_Sch=FClke?=:

> Daibhid Ceanaideach wrote:
>> For
>> ages Mum's been at me to clean the keyboard. This morning
>> I set to work. There was an awful lot of gunk in between
>> the keys, and as I scraped it out, I realised there was
>> more coming from *under* the keys. So, the logical thing
>> to do at this point seemed to be to unscrew the back and
>> get at the keys from behind. This did not work quite as
>> well as I hoped, but was quite effective. Putting the
>> keyboard back together proved less effective, and caused
>> the computer great distress when I switched it on.
>
> Strange. Its usually quite easy to disassemble and clean a
> (quality) keyboard; since I'm a bit of a collector when it
> comes to old [1] computers, I've done that at least a dozen
> times.

I had absolutely no problem taking it apart and cleaning it.

> (8) When you're absolutely, positively sure its dry,
> reassemble.

*This* was where I ran into problems...


--
Dave
Official Absentee of EU Skiffeysoc
http://www.eusa.ed.ac.uk/societies/sesoc
"[Wolverine]'s in every book. I think he just joined
the JLA, and for some reason he's in the revised
Penguin edition of Little Dorrit." -Joss Whedon
Re: [I] Fun with keyboards [message #260300 ] Do, 27 April 2006 13:11
Daibhid Ceannaideach  
Also Sprach Jens Ayton:

> Daibhid Ceanaideach:
>> Brian Wakeling:
>>> Daibhid Ceanaideach:
>>>>
>>>> This did not work quite as well as I hoped,
>>>> but was quite effective. Putting the keyboard back
>>>> together proved less effective, and caused the computer
>>>> great distress when I switched it on.
>>>>
>>> I do remember that I had terrible trouble trying to not
>>> put the screws through some of the wires - maybe you
>>> caught one?
>>
>> There weren't any wires. There was a circuit board that
>> connected to the computer and a large flexible printed
>> circuit that went under the keys. I suspect that the bit
>> where the circuits meet is where the problem is, but I
>> made several attempts at correcting this, before realising
>> that the chances of me losing either a screw or one of the
>> rubber things under the keys were increasing
>> exponentially.
>
> Keyboards of this nature are eminently take-apartable.

Yes, they are. I strongly recommend to any keyboard
manufacturers out there that they make it a bit trickier...

> Take a photo of
> the keyboard if you're not 100% sure of the layout.
> Obviously you need to keep track of the screws. Take a the
> thing apart, and put the key caps and rubber nipple things
> in a bowl of washing-up liquid and water. The flexible
> circuit thingy can generally be peeled into three parts
> (two with metal on, facing inwards, and a central separator
> with holes in). Wash each layer thoroughly on both sides.
> place in an oven at the lowest possible temperature to dry
> -- I've only tested this in an electric oven at about 50
> °C, use some sense. Wash up the key caps, then put them and
> the rubber nipples in the oven on a towel. Wash up the hard
> plastic bits and dry them. The important bits: I don't
> reccomend soaking actual PCBs with components on, and make
> sure everything is dry before reassembling.

That's not exactly what I did, but seems to be close enough.
The problem comes here...

> The connection
> between the sensor flexy thing and the PCB can be a
> problem, but side-effects beyond keys not being sensed
> properly are unlikely.

What about the Caps Lock and Num Lock lights being on when the
machine's switched off (as long as there's power) and
switching the machine on leading to *both* the sound you get
when a key's being pressed down while the computer tries to do
something else (didididididididi) *and* a notice saying
"missing keyboard error"?

--
Dave
Official Absentee of EU Skiffeysoc
http://www.eusa.ed.ac.uk/societies/sesoc
"[Wolverine]'s in every book. I think he just joined
the JLA, and for some reason he's in the revised
Penguin edition of Little Dorrit." -Joss Whedon
Re: [I] Fun with keyboards [message #260329 ] Do, 27 April 2006 15:03
Jens Ayton  
Daibhid Ceanaideach:
>
> What about the Caps Lock and Num Lock lights being on when the
> machine's switched off (as long as there's power) and
> switching the machine on leading to *both* the sound you get
> when a key's being pressed down while the computer tries to do
> something else (didididididididi) *and* a notice saying
> "missing keyboard error"?

If the lights are connected through the same thingy as the sensor
membrane, I'd say that suggests misalignment of the connector. The
key-down-all-the-time thing suggests the membrane is sticky or wet -
which is where the peeling it apart, cleaning the inner surfaces (and of
course not leaving washing-up liquid residue) and drying thoroughly
comes in handy.

Dunno about the missing keyboard error. You didn't put the PCB through
the dishwasher, did you? I strongly recommend against it.


--
\\\\ Jens Ayton, Fratello di Vetinari 36.3636363636364% insane
\\\\\__, Bringing sarcastic one-liners to the common hedgehog since 1999
\\\\\`/
Re: [I] Re: Fun with keyboards [message #260332 ] Do, 27 April 2006 15:07
Kar98  
On 2006-04-27 04:32:03 -0500, "Paul Harman"
<chatterbox [at] doctorwhowebguide.net> said:

> "René" <Kar98 [at] The-Coalition.US> wrote in message
> news:2006042620445950878-Kar98 [at] TheCoalitionUS...
>> Do you one better: _my_ local computer store sells something called
>> Windows XP Home. Strange thing, I think it's some sort of point and
>> click adventure game.
>
>
> You know that LOL acronym you see so often these days? Well, it's very
> rare that I actually do laugh out loud - loud enough for people to turn
> and stare at me - caused by something I read.

You're welcome :)
Re: [I] Fun with keyboards [message #260334 ] Do, 27 April 2006 15:11
Kar98  
On 2006-04-27 04:30:18 -0500, Michael J. Schülke <news0604 [at] mjschuelke.de> said:

> Decent keyboards are rare, and expensive. So far, I've found only a few
> good ones -- those IBM sold with the original AT, Cherry's G-80 series
> [1], Apple's Mac Extended II keyboard.

Apple's new standard keyboard for $29 looks, works and feels pretty
much exactly the same, except it doesn't have the white frame around it
and has a USB connection (plus two ports) instead of ADB.
Re: [I] Fun with keyboards [message #260337 ] Do, 27 April 2006 15:19
news0604  
Ren=E9 wrote:=20
> Apple's new standard keyboard for $29 looks, works and feels pretty=20
> much exactly the same, except it doesn't have the white frame around it=
=20
> and has a USB connection (plus two ports) instead of ADB.
>=20
How new? I know the one that shipped with the Mac Mini last August (if=20
you ordered it with a keyboard), and that was a cheap, spongy membrane=20
keyboard...=20

Michael
Re: [I] Fun with keyboards [message #260343 ] Do, 27 April 2006 15:29
Kar98  
On 2006-04-27 08:19:23 -0500, Michael J. Schülke <news0604 [at] mjschuelke.de> said:

> René wrote:
>> Apple's new standard keyboard for $29 looks, works and feels pretty
>> much exactly the same, except it doesn't have the white frame around it
>
>> and has a USB connection (plus two ports) instead of ADB.
>>
> How new? I know the one that shipped with the Mac Mini last August (if
> you ordered it with a keyboard), and that was a cheap, spongy membrane
> keyboard...

Hmmm, I compared it to a keyboard that actually is cheap ($4.95 retail)
and it the Apple keyboard doesn't feel cheap or spongy _in comparison_.
Nice, heavy construction; but I haven't taken it apart and never will,
in light of my track record when it comes to re-assembling keyboards.
But I guess we're talking about the same Apple keyboard, since I got
mine when I ordered _my_ Mac mini in March.
Re: [I] Fun with keyboards [message #260347 ] Do, 27 April 2006 16:00
Jens Ayton  
René:
>
> Apple's new standard keyboard for $29 looks, works and feels pretty much
> exactly the same, except it doesn't have the white frame around it and
> has a USB connection (plus two ports) instead of ADB.

The current Apple keyboard is _awful_. The virtually frameless design
makes it too easy to press modifier keys by mistake, the "trenches"
between key islands (combined with the bright white) make it a
prodigious dirt-gatherer and it feels much spongier than their previous
USB keyboards. (Upthread a bit: my ADB Extended Keyboard II was a
membrane keyboard.)


--
\\\\ Jens Ayton, Fratello di Vetinari 36.3636363636364% insane
\\\\\__, Bringing sarcastic one-liners to the common hedgehog since 1999
\\\\\`/
Re: [I] Fun with keyboards [message #260356 ] Do, 27 April 2006 16:43
Daibhid Ceannaideach  
Also Sprach Jens Ayton:

> Daibhid Ceanaideach:
>>
>> What about the Caps Lock and Num Lock lights being on when
>> the machine's switched off (as long as there's power) and
>> switching the machine on leading to *both* the sound you
>> get when a key's being pressed down while the computer
>> tries to do something else (didididididididi) *and* a
>> notice saying "missing keyboard error"?
>
> If the lights are connected through the same thingy as
> the sensor
> membrane, I'd say that suggests misalignment of the
> connector. The key-down-all-the-time thing suggests the
> membrane is sticky or wet - which is where the peeling it
> apart, cleaning the inner surfaces (and of course not
> leaving washing-up liquid residue) and drying thoroughly
> comes in handy.

You're probably right about the membrane for the key-holding
thing. The LEDs are on the main circuit board, and I *think*
they went on at one point when it was disconnected from
everything else[1], but I was more concerned with the keys at
the time. This probably means there's something loose there
that's creating a wrong connection.

However, despite not seeing how I can make it any worse[2],
I've promised my Mum I won't have another go, and she'll take
it to the shop when she's got a chance.

[1]Yes, that means I did something *really* stupid...

[2]Although I'm sure I'd find a way 8-(...

--
Dave
Official Absentee of EU Skiffeysoc
http://www.eusa.ed.ac.uk/societies/sesoc
"[Wolverine]'s in every book. I think he just joined
the JLA, and for some reason he's in the revised
Penguin edition of Little Dorrit." -Joss Whedon
Re: [I] Fun with keyboards [message #260369 ] Do, 27 April 2006 17:31
news0604  
Jens Ayton wrote:
> (Upthread a bit: my ADB Extended Keyboard II was a
> membrane keyboard.)

I just checked (and remembered with fondness the days when Apple made
maintenance-friendly hardware [1]): mine has microswitches.

http://mjschuelke.de/ExtIISideView.jpg
http://mjschuelke.de/ExtIITopView.jpg

Michael


[1] Today, alas, one might argue they don't make hardware anymore. In
the words on the back of my iPod: "Designed by Apple in California.
Assembled in Taiwan." By some OEM, that is.
Re: [I] Fun with keyboards [message #260370 ] Do, 27 April 2006 17:33
jester  
On 27 Apr 2006 14:43:10 GMT, Daibhid Ceanaideach
<daibhidchenedelh [at] aol.com> wrote:
>
>However, despite not seeing how I can make it any worse[2],
>I've promised my Mum I won't have another go, and she'll take
>it to the shop when she's got a chance.

You do realise it'll cost more to have them look at it than to just
replace it, don't you?
(well, unless it's under warranty, I suppose, in which case they'll just
give her a new one and throw that one away)

--
Andy Brown
Heuristics are bug ridden by definition. If they didn't have bugs,
then they'd be algorithms.
Re: [I] Fun with keyboards [message #260387 ] Do, 27 April 2006 18:21
Kar98  
On 2006-04-27 10:31:20 -0500, Michael J. Schülke <news0604 [at] mjschuelke.de> said:

> In the words on the back of my iPod: "Designed by Apple in California.
> Assembled in Taiwan."

s/Taiwain/China on the back of mine :|
Re: [I] Fun with keyboards [message #260389 ] Do, 27 April 2006 18:37
Daibhid Ceannaideach  
Also Sprach jester:

> On 27 Apr 2006 14:43:10 GMT, Daibhid Ceanaideach
> <daibhidchenedelh [at] aol.com> wrote:
>>
>>However, despite not seeing how I can make it any worse[2],
>>I've promised my Mum I won't have another go, and she'll
>>take it to the shop when she's got a chance.
>
> You do realise it'll cost more to have them look at it than
> to just replace it, don't you?
> (well, unless it's under warranty, I suppose, in which case
> they'll just give her a new one and throw that one away)

Nah, it's not PC World or anything, it's one of those little
shops run by a guy who, if he knows you, you practically have
to force him to accept any payment.

--
Dave
Official Absentee of EU Skiffeysoc
http://www.eusa.ed.ac.uk/societies/sesoc
"[Wolverine]'s in every book. I think he just joined
the JLA, and for some reason he's in the revised
Penguin edition of Little Dorrit." -Joss Whedon
Re: [I] Fun with keyboards [message #260657 ] Sa, 29 April 2006 00:00
stremler  
be gin quoting Daibhid Ceanaideach <daibhidchenedelh [at] aol.com> :
> Also Sprach =?ISO-8859-15?Q?Michael_J=2E_Sch=FClke?=:
[snip]
>
>> (8) When you're absolutely, positively sure its dry,
>> reassemble.

> *This* was where I ran into problems...

99% isopropyl alcohol is an essential resource to have around. Splash it
around, go play a game of Nethack on some other machine, and you'll be
set.

--
----stremler [at] rohan.sdsu.edu--------------------------------Stewart Stremler----
Isn't it cruel that "dyslexia" is so hard to spell? A dyslexic will often write
the letters in a word in the wrong order. So, if he wants to write about his
dyslexia, it might come out as "Ever since I was a child I've had daily sex."
Re: [I] Re: Fun with keyboards [message #260808 ] Sa, 29 April 2006 19:45
aqusenet  
Michael J. Schülke <news0604 [at] mjschuelke.de> wrote:

> Buzzholio wrote:
> > My local computer store sells USB vacuum cleaners
> > strange things but they clearly have their uses
> >
> They do? 5 V x 500 mA (USB maximum ratings) will give you 2.5 W of
> electrical power. Even with a highly efficient motor, that won't give
> you much suction. [1]

It's USB.

It sucks quite well anyway.

--
'q
Re: [I] Fun with keyboards [message #260809 ] Sa, 29 April 2006 19:45
aqusenet  
Michael J. Schülke <news0604 [at] mjschuelke.de> wrote:

> Arthur Hagen wrote:
> > Or, the next time you're near a local computer store, you can buy a new
> > IBM^WMicroline? keyboard for $10.
>
> Decent keyboards are rare, and expensive. So far, I've found only a few
> good ones -- those IBM sold with the original AT, Cherry's G-80 series
> [1], Apple's Mac Extended II keyboard. Those are all microswitch
> keyboards; some Siemens-Nixdorf keyboards are the only membrane
> keyboards that come close.

I have a Microsoft Natural Keyboard, one of the split key ones.

In fact, I have three, two at home (never be without a spare keyboard)
and one at work (because I asked specially). They are nice, and make my
RSI go away for a little while.

Of course, then I spend my evenings typing on IRC and Usenet on the
powerbook, which defeats the object somewhat...

--
'q
Re: Fun with keyboards [message #260822 ] Sa, 29 April 2006 21:25
raltbos  
"Buzzholio" <Andrew.Burrett [at] gmail.com> wrote:

> Michael J. Sch=FClke wrote:
> > Buzzholio wrote:
> > > My local computer store sells USB vacuum cleaners
> > > strange things but they clearly have their uses
> > >
> > They do? 5 V x 500 mA (USB maximum ratings) will give you 2.5 W of
> > electrical power. Even with a highly efficient motor, that won't give
> > you much suction. [1]
>
> Yeah thats why I thought they were strange, mind you I've seen
> ppl use those USB coffee mug warmers so anything is possible.

That's not half as bad. If your coffee is warm to start with, keeping it
warm won't take nearly as much power as providing reasonable suction.
Remember that it's a lot easier to convert electricity to heat than to
another form of energy, such as motion. For many devices, the problem is
how _not_ to generate so much heat.

Richard
Re: [I] Fun with keyboards [message #260919 ] So, 30 April 2006 11:34
PleegWat  
Aquarion wrote:
> I have a Microsoft Natural Keyboard, one of the split key ones.
>
> In fact, I have three, two at home (never be without a spare keyboard)
> and one at work (because I asked specially). They are nice, and make my
> RSI go away for a little while.
>
> Of course, then I spend my evenings typing on IRC and Usenet on the
> powerbook, which defeats the object somewhat...

Can't you plug the spare Natural Keyboard in it? Or does M$ for once
abandon the newest technologies and only offer a PS2 connector on it?
--

PleegWat
Remove caps to reply
Re: [I] Fun with keyboards [message #260959 ] So, 30 April 2006 17:29
raltbos  
PleegWat <pleegwat [at] PLEEGWAT.leegwater-68.demon.nl.INVALID> wrote:

> Aquarion wrote:
> > I have a Microsoft Natural Keyboard, one of the split key ones.
> >
> > In fact, I have three, two at home (never be without a spare keyboard)
> > and one at work (because I asked specially). They are nice, and make my
> > RSI go away for a little while.
> >
> > Of course, then I spend my evenings typing on IRC and Usenet on the
> > powerbook, which defeats the object somewhat...
>
> Can't you plug the spare Natural Keyboard in it? Or does M$ for once
> abandon the newest technologies and only offer a PS2 connector on it?

Powerbook is Apple. "Natural"[1] Keyboard is Micro$oft. I would not be
surprised at all if they refused to acknowledge one another. Besides,
you don't have pretzel keys on a PC keyboard.

Richard

[1] My opinions of it are quite opposite to those of Aquarion
Re: [I] Fun with keyboards [message #260968 ] So, 30 April 2006 17:56
news0604  
Richard Bos wrote:
> PleegWat <pleegwat [at] PLEEGWAT.leegwater-68.demon.nl.INVALID> wrote:

> > Can't you plug the spare Natural Keyboard in it? Or does M$ for once
> > abandon the newest technologies and only offer a PS2 connector on it?

IIRC they haven't been making the split type for some time now, so they
may well be PS/2 only.

> Powerbook is Apple. "Natural"[1] Keyboard is Micro$oft. I would not be
> surprised at all if they refused to acknowledge one another.

Why? Microsoft owns a sizeable share of Apple; a fact that the Disciples
of Steve often prefer to forget.

> Besides, you don't have pretzel keys on a PC keyboard.

I haven't tried it yet, but I'd very surprised if you couldn't remap the
keyboard under OS X; and there are enough unused keys on a standard PC
keyboard.

Michael
Re: [I] Fun with keyboards [message #260969 ] So, 30 April 2006 18:06
Kar98  
On 2006-04-30 10:29:21 -0500, raltbos [at] xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) said:

> Powerbook is Apple. "Natural"[1] Keyboard is Micro$oft. I would not be
> surprised at all if they refused to acknowledge one another. Besides,
> you don't have pretzel keys on a PC keyboard.

Both sorts of keyboards totally interchange, as long as they are USB.
The key that's at the same position will act as if it were the
appropriate key on the other OS. Windows key acts as alt/option key
under OSX and vice versa, apple/pretzel key will act as left ALT key,
etc.
Not a problem at all.
Re: [I] Fun with keyboards [message #260970 ] So, 30 April 2006 18:08
Kar98  
On 2006-04-30 10:56:07 -0500, Michael J. Schülke <news0604 [at] mjschuelke.de> said:

> Richard Bos wrote:
>> PleegWat <pleegwat [at] PLEEGWAT.leegwater-68.demon.nl.INVALID> wrote:
>
>>> Can't you plug the spare Natural Keyboard in it? Or does M$ for once
>>> abandon the newest technologies and only offer a PS2 connector on it?
>
> IIRC they haven't been making the split type for some time now, so they
> may well be PS/2 only.

Have you heard of Google?
http://www.google.com/search?q=ms+natural+keyboard+usb

>> Powerbook is Apple. "Natural"[1] Keyboard is Micro$oft. I would not be
>> surprised at all if they refused to acknowledge one another.
>
> Why? Microsoft owns a sizeable share of Apple; a fact that the
> Disciples of Steve often prefer to forget.
>> Besides, you don't have pretzel keys on a PC keyboard.
>
> I haven't tried it yet, but I'd very surprised if you couldn't remap
> the keyboard under OS X; and there are enough unused keys on a standard
> PC keyboard.

You don't even have to remap the keyboard. Just plug it in and off you go.
Re: [I] Fun with keyboards [message #260976 ] So, 30 April 2006 18:33
news0604  
Ren=E9 wrote:=20
> On 2006-04-30 10:56:07 -0500, Michael J. Sch=FClke <news0604 [at] mjschuelke.d=
e> said:

> > IIRC they haven't been making the split type for some time now, so they=
=20
> > may well be PS/2 only.
>=20
> Have you heard of Google?

Yes, I have.=20

> http://www.google.com/search?q=3Dms+natural+keyboard+usb

Your point being?=20

The trouble is that Microsoft has been using the "Natural Keyboard" name=20
for a number of products over the last 10 years or so. The one I was=20
referring to as "split type" consists of two independent halves,=20
connected only by a hinge in the middle, so that you can adjust the=20
angle between the hands. That one was (IIRC) sold only during the second=20
half of the 90s, so it may well be not have come in a USB variety.=20

> > I haven't tried it yet, but I'd very surprised if you couldn't remap=20
> > the keyboard under OS X; and there are enough unused keys on a standard=
=20
> > PC keyboard.
>=20
> You don't even have to remap the keyboard. Just plug it in and off you go=
..

And which key do you use as the feature ("pretzel") key?=20

Michael
Re: [I] Fun with keyboards [message #260997 ] So, 30 April 2006 19:53
Hendrik Schober  
René <Kar98 [at] The-Coalition.US> wrote:
> On 2006-04-30 10:29:21 -0500, raltbos [at] xs4all.nl (Richard Bos) said:
>
> > Powerbook is Apple. "Natural"[1] Keyboard is Micro$oft. I would not be
> > surprised at all if they refused to acknowledge one another. Besides,
> > you don't have pretzel keys on a PC keyboard.
>
> Both sorts of keyboards totally interchange, as long as they are USB.
> The key that's at the same position will act as if it were the
> appropriate key on the other OS. Windows key acts as alt/option key
> under OSX and vice versa, apple/pretzel key will act as left ALT key,
> etc.
> Not a problem at all.

Not my experience. When I plugged my Mac's keyboard
into my PC for a test, the Apple key became the
Windows key and the Alt key was the Alt key. Really
not nice, considering that the Alt/Apple keys are
exactly reversed compare to the Alt/Windows keys.
Drove me nuts, so that I decided two keyboards are
OK on my desk.

Schobi

--
SpamTrap [at] gmx.de is never read
I'm Schobi at suespammers dot org

"The sarcasm is mightier than the sword."
Eric Jarvis
Vorheriges Thema:[I] Help with reading Google Groups, please.
Nächstes Thema:[I] Website, php and art advice
Gehe zu:
  


aktuelle Zeit: Sa Mai 26 05:14:04 CEST 2012

Insgesamt benötigte Zeit, um die Seite zu erzeugen: 0,10891 Sekunden
.:: Startseite - Hinweise - Impressum ::.

Powered